Family Relationships

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012

Virtual Book Tour: Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak

Have you ever thought about dropping out and having a midlife adventure? If so, you've come to the right blog, as we welcome author Mark Saunders to our Virtual Book Tour. Facing the prospect of job loss in their late 50s, Mark and his wife chose to drop out, sell everything and move to the central highlands of Mexico, where they didn't know a soul and couldn't speak the language. Mark's here to answer questions about his hilarious novel, Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak:

Nourishing Relationships: Why did you decide to write about your experience as a first-time expat living in the middle of Mexico?

Mark Saunders: My wife and I were the last persons we ever thought would drop out and move to Mexico, especially when we did. We were in our late 50s at the time, did not have much money to back us up, and did not consider ourselves the adventurous types. We were both working in high-tech, for different companies, and coincidently our jobs were going away around the same time. At our age, we felt boxed in—or out. So we sold our condo in downtown Portland, Oregon, with the spectacular view of Mt. Hood and Mt. St. Helens and lived in Mexico off the proceeds of the sale. Put another way, we gave ourselves a self-funded, open-ended sabbatical. Funny things happened to us almost immediately and I thought I should start writing about what was going on, and do so mostly from the point of view of someone who was totally ill-equipped and ill-prepared to be an expat.

NR: What’s the number one question people ask you about living in Mexico?

MS: It’s a toss-up between “Is it safe?” and “What do you do for medical care?” The drug war is insane, of course. But it’s pretty much limited to the border towns and drug cartels or federales shooting at each other over turf. San Miguel is a ten-hour drive from the Texas border. I felt safer walking in my first Mexican neighborhood at night than my old Portland neighborhood. I feel just as safe in my new San Miguel neighborhood, which is closer to the center of town. Medical care is an interesting question. The first time we lived here we subscribed to a global health insurance policy for catastrophic medical needs. Everything else we paid for out of pocket. A doctor’s visit, for example, was about three hundred pesos or twenty-five dollars at the current exchange rate. In other words, it was close to what we would have spent as a co-pay in the States. Dental work is a lot cheaper here, too, and it’s high quality work. If you’re talking about brain surgery, you probably want to return to the US and get it done there. But if you need lab work or a basic physical or a leg cast or a thorough skin cancer checkup, you can get it done here and for a lot less than in the States. Plus, the doctors make house calls and the pharmacies deliver to your door. How cool is that? When all else fails, there are US-style major hospitals thirty to forty minutes away.

NR: What did you find most surprising about Mexico?

MS: So many aspects of life down here surprised me, pleasantly so, I’m not sure where to start. Of course, when you drive down you first notice the roads and the highway system in Mexico, especially the toll roads, which far exceeded my expectations. The scenery was, at times, spectacular. Watching a rising middle class has been fascinating. We have hi-speed Internet in our house, decent mobile phone coverage, and fresh, delicious produce and eggs every day. There’s even a burgeoning organic food movement in San Miguel. Perhaps the single greatest pleasure, even though I can’t call it a surprise, was how warm, gracious, and friendly our Mexican neighbors were and still are.

NR: What disappointed you most about living in San Miguel?

MS: My greatest disappointment and the bane of my existence down here is the level of noise. San Miguel is a party town and Mexicans love their fiestas. Their philosophy seems to be if it’s worth celebrating, it’s worth a lot of noise. I suppose if I were twenty again I’d feel different about it all but the noise is relentless. Perhaps my second greatest disappointment is that I can’t buy my jeans off-the-rack. I’m short and stocky and thought, finally, at last, a country where I’m closer to a normal size and I wouldn’t have to get my pants altered or wear them hiked up under my chin like some 80-year old guy playing Bocce Ball. I’m afraid I’ll also never figure out the door locks in Mexico. Some things are beyond my comprehension.

NR: How did you come up with your book’s title?

MS: I wanted a title that would combine Mexico and humor. One early title was (groan) “Two Years Before the Masa,” which wouldn’t work, I realized, since the Richard Dana book referred to disappeared from bookshelves a long time ago and only serious cooks knew that tortillas come from masa or corn dough. Eventually I settled on Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak for the title because it’s a chapter from the book and because it captures, in six words, my total confusion and incompetence as an expat. Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak is, of course, a play on the old spiritual “Nobody knows the trouble I’ve seen, nobody knows but Jesus” and, I think, it’s a title that says this is a light-hearted book about a non-Hispanic living in an Hispanic country. Plus, as bonus points, our car mechanic’s name was Jesus and he knew a lot about the troubles we had with our car.

NR: Has your Spanish improved?

MS: Yes, but not significantly. Sometimes clichés make the best or at least shortest explanations. In my case, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I regret not mastering a foreign language when I was much younger and had more brain cells on my team, with a better shot at winning. Now it’s almost impossible for me to get beyond the basic hello-how-are-you-see-you-later greetings. I try to speak Spanish whenever I can but it’s mostly individual words, broken up like ceramic tile and spackled together, supplemented with some vigorous hand signals and finger pointing. I’m not proud of my lack of proficiency in Spanish. I’d also like to be able to play the piano but I suspect at my age—here comes another cliché—that ship has sailed.

NR: Do you have plans for a sequel or second book about life in Mexico?

MS: Yes, sort of, maybe, I think so. I’m working on a book about our new Standard Poodle, Duke, a 75-pound apricot-colored male. He’s basically a snow dog who now finds himself living in the middle of a semi-arid climate. The working title is “The Duke of San Miguel.” He literally stops traffic whenever we take him out for his walks. And at least once a week someone asks if they can have their picture taken with him. We’re thinking of putting a sign around his neck and charging for the photos. I’m also working on two full-length plays, as well as adapting one of my screenplays to a novel.

If there are jokes in the book, I’m the butt of them, as well as the punch line to most setups. As it should be. The San Miguel Author’s Sala, since renamed the Literary Sala, published early drafts of two of the essays included in Nobody Knows.

NR: You often refer to old movies or rock lyrics. Was that a deliberate stylistic choice on your part?

MS: Indeed it was. Like a lot of people, I love movies and music and have been influenced heavily by both. Arlene likes to say I can’t remember to pay a bill on time but I can remember a piece of dialogue from a movie I watched twenty years ago. I also think dropping in bits of popular culture is another way of connecting to readers, especially in a humorous memoir targeted at readers around my own age. When I was in college, I knew a woman who would spice up her conversation with song lyrics, as if she were quoting Aristotle. By the way, I don’t quote Aristotle in the book, or Plato, for that matter. I do, however, cite Albert Brooks and Humphrey Bogart.

NR: Instead of selling everything and moving to Mexico, why didn’t you just take a six-month tourist visa and rent a place for awhile?

MS: We weren't interested in just another vacation, we wanted an adventure. We had worked our entire adult lives, with only an occasional week or two off, and felt it was time to try something new and we hoped interesting. Portland, Oregon, is a wonderful place to live but we didn’t see ourselves closing out our lives there. As difficult as it was to leave the comfort of familiar surroundings and dear friends, we craved a real change in our lives. Presto chango, we found ourselves in the middle of Mexico in a traditional neighborhood.

And don’t get me started about the topes or speed bumps. What we refer to as speed bumps in the States pale by comparison. It’s like that scene in the film Crocodile Dundee when the Australian guy is walking in New York City at night and is accosted by a desperate man waving a knife. The Australian laughs at the guy and says, “That’s not a knife, Mate.” Then he pulls out a huge knife that’s as big as a machete and tells the would-be thief, pointing it at him: “Now that’s a knife.” That’s pretty much how I feel about the difference between speed bumps in the States and in Mexico.

NR: I imagine it was difficult leaving friends and family behind but did they ever say or think you were crazy for moving to Mexico when you did?

MS: I’m sure plenty of our loved ones and acquaintances thought so. But they had the good manners to not tell us to our face we had flipped out.

NR: Had you ever lived in another country before or thought about it?

MS: When I was in the military I was stationed on Puerto Rico for nine months. However, I was stuck on the military base most of the time. Whenever I could, I’d take a bus into San Juan and spend a weekend, filling myself up with local food and culture. About ten years ago, Arlene was offered an engineering position in Dresden, Germany. She went back to Dresden to find us a place to live and called to ask me if I wanted to live in Old Town (Altstadt) or New Town (Neustadt). I told her it was Europe and I definitely wanted to live in the older part of town. She laughed and told me that Neustadt dated from something like the 1600s. Ultimately, she didn’t feel right about the job offer and turned them down. From that point on, though, we coveted the thought of living in another country, especially someplace in Europe. San Miguel is not Europe but it’s done a great job preserving a 17th century European look and feel. It’s a beautiful, historic setting and a favorite tourist spot for Mexicans.

NR: Did you ever regret dropping out and leaving the States?

Never. I think what we came to regret was leaving Mexico and returning to the States when we did, which was in late 2007, just in time to participate in or at least observe from the sidelines with great horror the tanking of the American economy. Returning to the States meant we were going to have to try and find work and the downturn in the economy, coupled with our ages, made that a Herculean task, to say the least. But we were homesick. What we probably should have done was returned to the States periodically for long stretches, a month or so at a time, and still keep a house in San Miguel. Hindsight doesn’t require reading glasses from Costco.
NR: This is your first book. What is your background as a writer?

MS: I did a lot of technical writing and then marketing writing over the years. In my spare time, I wrote and drew cartoons, weekly single-panels for newspapers and gag cartoons for magazines. I also did some editorial cartooning in college and after. I wrote gags for the comic strip “Frank & Ernest” as a freelancer and did quite well, since I love silly word play. I even tried stand-up comedy for a bit and didn’t do well at end. In fact, I bombed enormously at it and returned to writing, which was easier and more natural for me. I’ve never had to run into the bathroom just before starting to write and throw up. Eventually, I started writing short plays in my spare time. More than twenty of my plays have been either staged or read in theatres across the country, a few have won awards, and a couple have been published. Then, I started writing feature screenplays, all comedies. They’ve won awards but only one of my full-length scripts has been optioned. Two of my short scripts have been optioned as well and one was actually filmed. Please don’t ask about the film. The tipping point for me as a writer came in late 2001 when I applied for and won a fellowship. The award gave me six weeks in a cabin in the Southern Oregon woods to do nothing but write. My employer at the time was very generous and supportive and kept my job open for me while I took time off to write. However, from that point on, it was hard for me to work a regular job when I’d rather be spending my time writing. It was one of those “how ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm” experiences, an epiphany that changed my life.

Thanks for being so candid and thorough in your responses, Mark. Now, readers, it's your turn to ask Mark questions about writing, midlife or Mexico. Just click on "Comments" at the bottom of this post and follow the prompts. You can even sign in as 'Anonymous.' It's as easy as that and we would love to hear from you!

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Blogger Jackie Donnelly said...

I think the title of your book is hilarious. Do you find the Mexicans open and welcoming to ex-pats? How do you make friends with Spanish-speaking natives?

4:28 AM  
Blogger Ceil said...

Hi Mark
Thanks so much for the entertaining interview! Loved the book, and look forward to another. I'm curious about whether this experience has made you want to try another new place - to retire to another place you've never been. It seems like it has been such an eye-opening trip - it'd be great to see you all as the vagabond retirees!

7:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I envy you. I would love to make a fresh start but don't know how to take the first step. What might that be?

8:02 AM  
Anonymous Mary said...

Wow, that IS an adventure! Where can I get a copy of your book? And when do you expect the next one to come out?

8:28 AM  
Anonymous Mary said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:32 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Thanks for liking the title, Jackie. The working title was “We’ll Always Have Parasites.” But that title sounded like the memoir of the life and times of a gastroenterologist, so I changed it to “Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak,” which, I think, is a much better title. Besides, “Nobody Knows” captures one of the book’s main themes (I was—and still am—a clueless expat) and it’s also the title of one of the book’s chapters. In response to your question, I find the residents of San Miguel incredibly open and welcoming to expats. For example, we’ve been invited to dinner at the homes of Mexicans, as well as to their wedding receptions and other events. Truth be told, my Mexican friends speak much better English than I speak Spanish, so we communicate in English. In the case of friends who do not speak English, I try what little Spanish I know, combined with hand signals and facial expressions, and so far we’re able to understand each other. It’s sort of like semaphore without the flags.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Thank you, Ceil. I’m glad you enjoyed the interview and the book. We’ve talked about trying another place, but we love it here. I suspect at this point if we move at all it will be to a different neighborhood in San Miguel. Or, even less dramatically, we’d move from the upstairs bedroom of our current rental to the downstairs bedroom. On the other hand, if we were to try a new place, say, Guyana, I could do another book and title it “Nobody Knows the Urdu I Speak.” You are correct, though. Dropping out and moving to a country where we didn’t know anybody or the language opened more than just our eyes. If we were younger, we might try another country or two. For now, San Miguel is home and we’ll have to settle for visiting other countries as temporary tourists rather than as resident expats. I still dress as if I’m a vagabond, if that counts.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

It’s usually at this point where I say, “That’s a great question.” Then, pause for several beats, look at the other side of the room, and ask if there are any other questions. A fair and honest answer would depend on knowing more about your situation. In our case, we were in our late fifties and our jobs were going away. We were in high tech and knew the odds of finding our next high tech job were bleak. We also didn’t have children, which made it easier to pack up and leave for parts unknown. We were tired of the wet, gloomy weather that often consumed Portland. And we needed an adventure. Still, we did a lot of research before selecting San Miguel and before actually crossing the border with a packed car and pets. My advice is to think long and hard about what you really want. For example, I always thought I’d retire on the coast or in the mountains. When I was younger I envisioned myself spending my senior years walking along the beach or fishing for trout in the wee hours of the morning. However, I wouldn’t trade my life in SMA for the coast or mountains. I’m never bored here and you can only walk up and down a beach so many times or catch so many trout. I make the point in the book that my wife and I never considered ourselves as risk-takers, yet we moved to a foreign country, where we didn’t know anyone. Still, we tried to be practical and wanted our adventure to succeed. We picked San Miguel, a soft landing for expats, and not a small village out in the countryside. Getting back to your question about that first step? We were partly motivated by a quote from Henry James: “It’s time to start living the life you had always imagined.” That was our first step.

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Thanks for asking, Mary. My book can be ordered online from (my wonderful publisher),, Barnes & Noble, and iPad. It is available in both paperback and ebook formats. I am working on a sequel but don’t know when I’ll finish it.

10:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds so appealing! We'd love to do something like that but what stops us is the thought of not seeing family and friends regularly. Do you get a lot of visitors?

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Mark said...

You identified the biggest hurdle. We’re pretty far from family and friends in the States and it’s generally neither easy nor cheap to get to San Miguel. I wouldn’t say we get a lot of visitors but we do get visitors and they’re always welcome. We’re planning on at least two trips back to the States each year, to help minimize the separation. An unexpected treat for us, however, is how easy it has been to make friends in San Miguel. As it turned out, by moving to Mexico we expanded our circle of friends, not reduced it. We now have good friends in two countries.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Laurie said...

Hi Mark! What other areas around San Miquel are some of your favorites? What would you suggest doing for folks interested in traveling there for a visit?

12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You could be the poster guy for adventure. What qualities in your character or personality have served you well in this experience?

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love the book!

1:10 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Hi Laurie,
Good question. I love getting a chance to brag about this place. In addition to being a charming, artsy, colonial town in the middle of Mexico, San Miguel is both culturally and historically significant (the Mexican revolution started in this general area). There’s much to do in and around the town, which is a UNESCO World Heritage site and one of Mexico’s true gems. In fact, a neighbor just told me that the BBC featured SMA a day or so ago. San Miguel’s central square is called the Jardin (for garden) and it faces the Gaudi-like La Parroquia, the town’s major icon. There are art galleries and craft shops everywhere. I like to say, you can’t swing an artist in this town without hitting a writer—and if the writer ducks, you’re bound to hit a jazz musician. There’s a botanical garden with 500 species of cacti at one end of town and the Aurora Fabrica Art Center, home to more than 30 artists, at the other end. One of my favorite spots is the Ceremonial Mask Museum, a collection of more than 400 masks that have all been used in masked festivals and ceremonies. Walking the narrow, cobble stoned streets and looking at the colorful houses is a simple but special treat. Just outside of town, there’s Atotonilco, one of the holiest shrines in Mexico and often called the Sistine Chapel of the Americas, as well as La Canada de la Virgen, the only pre-Hispanic archaeological pyramid site in the area. Within an hour’s drive are the towns of Guanajuato (several museums), Mineral de Pozos (once a major mining center and now a thriving art town), Dolores Hildalgo (the place to go for ceramics), and Peña de Bernal (third-tallest monolith in the world). Sorry for the long answer, but there’s just so much to see and do here. Living in San Miguel is like being on a cruise: you can sit in a lounge chair, read a book, and soak up the sun. Or, you can be as busy as a conga line from early morning to late evening.

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Poster guy for adventure? You don’t want a poster of me in Khaki pants, wearing a pith helmet, and holding a whip. Now that I think about it, though, that would make a great one-sheet for a horror film. Basically, I like people and I think that comes through in my interactions with Mexicans and with others. I’ve always liked the Latino culture, its food, art, and music, to list just three reasons. I love how strangers greet me with a smile and a “Buenas Dias” on the street and, likewise, I greet them back. After such greetings, I no longer check to see if my wallet is still in my pocket. Emotionally, I’ve mellowed quite a bit since moving here and no longer expect the plumber or cable guy to show up on time--or anyone, for that matter. I learned early in the process that “manana” was more of a ballpark estimate of some future date and did not necessarily mean tomorrow. Physically, I think I’m a good fit. I’m short and stocky, which would help me blend in, except I have the kind of Celtic skin that turns ruddy whenever the temperature gets above 70, and my hair, what’s left of it, is white. Spiritually, having been raised Catholic, I don’t mind the frequent ringing of church bells or walking by a statue covered in blood and thorns. Also, that one year of high school Spanish has provided me with a nice cushion, especially if I’m chatting with pre-schoolers.

1:47 PM  
Anonymous mary s said...

Hi Mark,

I'm familiar with your wonderful and diverse body of work....cartoons, screenplays, plays and now the book. Do you prefer one creative form of expression over another? Which is the most satisfying? Most frustrating? Most fun?

2:13 PM  
Anonymous Sallie latch said...

Mark, you are such a clever,funny guy and your wit and humour come through loud and clear in your writing I want to give your book as gifts. Where can I buy them? Also one other question; what are the issues in renting a house in Mexico?

Best of luck to you.

Sallie Latch

2:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love your responses--very quick witted. I've imagined retiring to a more affordable area, like Mexico, and wonder if I'd feel too uprooted and far from home. Did it take you a while to adjust to a different culture?

2:28 PM  
Anonymous Robin Loving Rowland said...

Hi, Mark! Loved your book! How has this experienced changed your relationship with your wife? Good luck with your interview tomorrow! Robin

3:48 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Thanks for asking, Mary S. Without sounding too corny, I feel blessed. (Hey, that rhymes!) I’ve been able to work on creative projects my whole life and I’ve found them all rewarding. Cartooning was my gateway creative passion. I loved to draw at an early age and was an incessant doodler. The kind of cartooning I preferred as an adult is known as gag cartooning and it’s considered as much about writing as it is about illustrating. In fact, Brant Parker (Wizard of Id) said gag cartooning is 80 percent writing. People generally stick a gag cartoon on their fridge because of the idea or the caption, not the drawing. At one point I took standup comedy classes to get over shyness and found that I preferred writing comedy to performing it. So, I started writing plays. I discovered I could type “At Rise” and not have to run to the bathroom to flash the hash. After that, I tried screenplays, because I love movies. My first script landed me a literary manager and the script was hot for about seven seconds. My second script was optioned but never filmed. I think I would have to say screenwriting, although I love it, is the most frustrating, and writing plays would be the most satisfying. I’m not one of those playwrights who sticks pins in a voodoo doll of some actor. In my experience, actors and directors have made my words much better than originally composed. And now I have a book, which I also find satisfying. To sum up, I guess I’m a wordy cartoonist with a short attention span. Sounds corny, doesn’t it?

3:58 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Thanks, Sallie! My book can be ordered online from (as I said before, and I don’t mind saying again, my wonderful publisher; check out their other books while on their site),, Barnes & Noble, and iPad. Nobody Knows the Spanish I Speak is available in both paperback and ebook formats. We’ve found many great rental options in SMA and only a few issues. Like in most US cities, you have your choice of a wide selection of neighborhoods, from city dwellings near the center of town, called Centro, to more suburban areas to gated communities. All have their benefits. We’re renting in a mixed-use neighborhood and love it. We can walk across the street to get tamales from a woman whose tamale-making skill was mentioned in an issue of National Geographic (according to a neighbor). There are restaurants on our street, as well as the most amazing car wash, where for the equivalent of about $5 USD you can get your car almost-detailed, and at the other end of our street is one of the town’s more highly regarded pet vets. We walk just about everywhere, but if we want to catch a cab, we can get one right outside our gate within minutes. An average cab ride to just about anywhere in town cost under $3 dollars. Okay, now to the downside. Unlike in the States, when you rent a place here, chances are it doesn’t come with light fixtures and a few other items. Plumbing and electrical can sometimes be hit and miss and you may need to invest in repair work. Off-street parking is hard to come by within the city. But those are very minor details. Although many people rent for a few months out of the year, plenty of people, like us, take out a one-year or long-term lease. Best of all, landlords tend to leave you alone. They generally don’t mind, say, if you want to repaint the house you’re renting from them. We decided that renting, rather than buying or building, was our best option and still believe it.

4:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More please. I want to feel safe when traveling south. It sounds like you were. Bravo

5:57 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

We were strangers in a strange land—and will always be, I guess—but it didn’t take long to feel comfortable living in the middle of Mexico. First, our Mexican neighbors never made us feel unwelcome. They might say negative things about expats inside their own homes, but never to us directly and we never felt out of place, even though we were three thousand miles from Portland. I have a raft of neighbor-friendly stories I could share. Second, the expat community is incredibly supportive of new expats who move here. Now, the matter of noise is another matter entirely. Noise, thy name is Mexico. Sleep, thy name is not. If Mexico had a nuclear bomb they’d probably detonate it just for the noise. They wouldn’t want to hurt anybody, mind you, but they sure do love a big bang. The truth is, when we returned to the States we felt more out of place there and missed SMA almost immediately. If you retire to another country, plan to make trips back to the States, to reconnect with loved ones, and enjoy the newest chapter in your life.

6:02 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

Good question, Robin, and thanks for asking it. Yes, it has changed our relationship, slightly, but my wife has been a good sport and great supporter of my efforts with Nobody Knows. Arlene and I are both the central characters in the memoir, which could be awkward at times. As a result, I tried to establish our different personalities early in the memoir and build on it. Essentially, Arlene is the smart one in our family and, as her sister used to say about me, I am the fungi. I am the butt of almost every joke or the punchline of every setup in the book, as well I should be. I find the descriptions of my wife much more interesting. However, Arlene is thinking she might need to re-read the book. People who have read the book tell her, “Now I understand you better.” Hmm. Next time, I’m writing a novel so I can put one of those “Any resemblance to persons living or dead is coincidental” disclaimers in the front of the book.

6:03 PM  
Anonymous Mark said...

The previous question asked if the memoir had changed my relationship with my wife. I'm not sure the book has altered our relationship in a large way, quite frankly. I do know, however, that moving to the middle of a foreign country and not knowing anyone brought us closer together. For a while, all we had was each other and we didn't mind.

Thank you for asking questions about my book and our new lives in old Mexico. I also want to thank Rosemary and Phyllis for allowing me to share their site for a day. Finally, I want to thank the fine people at Fuze Publishing who worked with me on the book: my editor, who was nothing short of amazing and ultimately knew my own story better than I did; my book designer, who "got it"; and, well, the entire business and marketing team.

Thank you, one and all. Vaya con nachos!

2:52 AM  

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